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  #1  
Old 08-27-2016, 04:15 PM
durangod durangod is offline
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Default Please add a flowchart to your docs section

Hi,

It makes it very difficult when you expect people to know all about level 1 and you start your documentation on level 2.

It would greatly help, if you had some kind of flowchart, even a basic one with a short explanation added to your docs so that people that are not at level 2 can understand the basic structure.

Not everyone knows the structure before they begin, many just know that TCAdmin is the best and get it without understanding the original concept and structure of which i could not find anywhere in the docs.

Also videos of initial basic setup, install, or just talking about the structure are non existent. It might be a good idea to do even a simple video to help the public understand.

Thanks so much
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2016, 03:35 AM
DennisMidjord DennisMidjord is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

Care to elaborate? Give some examples?
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2016, 06:44 AM
durangod durangod is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

Hi,

well the lack of videos is pretty self explanatory, just try finding a video that shows you the very basics of TCAdmin, even a general overview, its not out there that i could find.

Regarding the flowchart, that would be pretty basic as well, just lay out the top tier (master), then flow down to the other tiers and with each tier talk about the overall presence of data.

A. Where are the games stored for each tier.
B. Is there a main source of data and all shared or is the data all independent
C. What is the relative path which exists between the levels
D. Layout the difference between a monitor and a service manager in design.

The docs talk about what a monitor and service manager do, but they dont paint any kind of visual picture of what they look like in the design of it all.

Basically what im asking is to give an initial picture of the design so that when people first start out reading the docs they already have an idea of what the basic structure is they are trying to achieve.

Something along the lines of the image attached just very basic to give a picture of what is being presented and how it connects and flows.
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File Type: jpg fssample.jpg (20.5 KB, 21 views)
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  #4  
Old 08-28-2016, 07:23 AM
DennisMidjord DennisMidjord is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

A) When you say 'tier', what do you mean?
B) What? Do you mean game files? All of this can be configured per-server or can all be downloaded from the Master server, or you can even setup a file server, just to host the files. All of this has been documented.
C) The relative path is... relative... Relative to the directory in which the game files are downloaded to. It's always the same, unless you run the services as TCAGame and User Per Service, and not just one of them.
D) There's no design... I'm not sure if I'm just misunderstanding the entire post.

Quote:
The docs talk about what a monitor and service manager do, but they dont paint any kind of visual picture of what they look like in the design of it all.
Well, it doesn't take much research to figure out that the Monitor is a monitor, and that the service manager is... Yeah, it's way to obvious.
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2016, 08:41 AM
durangod durangod is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

OK Dennis lets remain professional here, i feel like your starting to flame me a bit and i dont appreciate it ok.

First of all sir, i am not the only one who has asked for this(and you can do a search for that if you wish to), and so what "is obvious" is that there is a lacking in the documentation for those that are getting into the gaming profession for the first time and very green.

You may understand what all the techno jargon means but the "green folks" do not. And all i ask for was alittle clarification as to the basic structure. You say it does not have structure we it has to have some structure or it cant flow.

Furthermore sir, it is not obvious what a monitor is or a service manage is. A monitor can be a program or a device or simply a non tangible name of something. Show me in the docs where it says a monitor is a physical device that you look at. Its not clear to those just starting out. And for those that deal with other venues and use the monitor word to mean something else then it really is confusing.

Also show me in the docs where it says exactly what a service manager is, it says what it does, but can i click on it in the menu or is it just a buzz word of some kind that the developers created for lack of a better name.

Quote:
TCAdmin consists of two major components. The monitor and the service manager. They can run in either service mode or console mode. When a server is restarted the monitor and service manager are started automatically in service mode.
Again tell me if this is something to click on or if its just a design name of something intangible that is within the system. It is not clear.

You honestly dont know what a tier is.. Its another word for level sir.

I am not asking for you to explain it to me because your words make it more confusing, i am asking for it to be shown in the documentation or on a simple video so that "green" users can get the concept before they start.

When i started this i was told only that "oh its easy you just set the master and then you get a remote license and its a piece of cake" Well its not!!!

There is no explanation at all in the docs regarding how this fits together. If i am wrong then show me!

I am sorry but i simply cannot believe that you dont understand what a simple flow chart is which describes the flow of process from 30,000 feet per say. Im not asking for finite detail. Im asking for a general idea because it may be clear to you and other "with experience" but it is certainly not clear at all to someone "green" as myself.

Show me in the docs where it says things like.

When setting up your main server you have several options as to how you wish to deliver the game files to your clients. And those choices are?

Or show me where it says,
The intention of the master is to perform this duty
The intention of the remote server is to perform this duty
The intention of the file server is to perform this duty
The intention of the datacenter is to perform this duty
The intention of the virtual server is to perform this duty

And this is the basic relationship between these options, and the master.

I could not find anything that explains this to the "green" person.

And since that is not available then what your saying is that "green" people should not attempt this business until they understand the structure of gaming servers.

Well how are we doing to learn if software does not explain it properly sir. And how are we going to learn if there are no videos available. And how are we going to learn when people that do know about this attempt to flame us and make us feel stupid for asking for clarification sir.

My request was simple and it was for either a general video about the software or a simple flow chart. Every software are the market seems to have a basic video. Even if someone has to stand in front of a chalk board and draw some squares and explain this is the master and then you can do this or that and here is how it fits. Its not that hard to do if you know it, but it seems im getting pushback for this and i dont know why.

Every good software on the market at some point in the beginning has done a basic flow chart in order for the developers to get the big picture as well. Without one then there is no real direction and it just squirts all over the place.

So what your saying is that noone that understands this can take 20 minutes with paint and add a simple flowchart to the docs so that "green" people like myself can understand how the master fits with the datacenter and that fits with the file server and that fits with the server and that fits with the virtual server.

Dont you think TCAdmin would get many more sales if people understood the concept rather than it seeming so overwhelming?

Thanks for your time...

Last edited by durangod; 08-28-2016 at 09:46 AM.
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2016, 09:09 AM
durangod durangod is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

Now it does appear that someone made an attempt at one time. But there is no video and this is for windows not linux.

http://clients.tcadmin.com/knowledge...yarticle&id=16
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2016, 09:20 AM
DennisMidjord DennisMidjord is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

Quote:
i feel like your starting to flame me a bit and i dont appreciate it ok.
Alrighty, I'm out. I asked you to elaborate, and I didn't quite understand what you meant, as I stated. If you take it as me flaming you, then be my guest.

Quote:
You may understand what all the techno jargon means but the "green folks" do not
I was once a green alien, not known to anything regarding TCAdmin. In one year I became so known with the software that gaming communities and game service providers have paid me to do stuff for them.

The structure is as you would have expected - the master control the slaves. By default, the master runs the webserver, the sending of mails, the databse - all that kind of stuff. The remotes are simply machines that you connect to the master so all of your data are connected under one 'installation'.

Quote:
oh its easy you just set the master and then you get a remote license and its a piece of cake
If you want a basic setup, it really is that easy.

Quote:
Show me in the docs where it says a monitor is a physical device that you look at.
It's not a physical device. It's a piece of software. TCAdmin is basically the Monitor and the Service Manager. Reading through help.tcadmin.com, you soon realise what the monitor is.

Quote:
When setting up your main server you have several options as to how you wish to deliver the game files to your clients. And those choices are?

Or show me where it says,
The intention of the master is to perform this duty
The intention of the remote server is to perform this duty
The intention of the file server is to perform this duty
The intention of the datacenter is to perform this duty
The intention of the virtual server is to perform this duty
But mate, ffs... It's self-explanatory! The 'master' server isn't really different than 'remote' servers. It's just the machines from which your game services are run from - it's a Linux or Windows machine. The file server - it's a server for files. Fast Download files, game files... All those kinds of files. Trying to play a bit with the settings reveals a whole lot. Setup a File Server, and you'll now see an option to use that server as a place to store files in the 'Servers' category. You need very basic information to get started with TCAdmin - heck, you can even install it without knowing anything about SSH!
If you don't know what 'Datacenter' is, then don't use it. Simply as that. Knowing what a datacenter is is something that's just way too basic to be explained.

Quote:
And since that is not available they what your saying is that "green" people should not attempt this business until they understand the structure of gaming servers.
No, but I'm just saying that explaining something that's basic information shouldn't be necessary. Google File Server, Datacenter - Google Virtual Server - you'll get an explanation. Look at the settings for a Virtual Server, and you'd figure out how to use it in 5 minutes. Oh, and by the way: http://help.tcadmin.com/Server_Management
EVERYTHINGYOUNEEDTOKNOWISTHERE. And yes, also the description about what a datacenter or file server is, which you couldn't find, is there... And it has been there since 2012.
And no, 'Green people' who have no idea how to run servers shouldn't start making it their business. If you don't know what a datacenter is, you're simply just not ready.

Quote:
Well how are we doing to learn if software does not explain it properly sir. And how are we going to learn if there are no videos available. And how are we going to learn when people that do know about this attempt to flame us and make us feel stupid for asking for clarification sir.
I wasn't flaming, now I am. Learn. By. Doing. Learn by reading the docs - because you obviously didn't. Explain to me why it is so important to know what the Monitor and the Service manager does? THEY BOTH NEEDS TO BE RUNNING for the software to work! Are you going to read about how Apache works in depth before you're willing to get your website running? No, you just start up Apache because it's the 'effing software that makes the entire thing run, just like the monitor is. Stop the Monitor and the Service manager and find out - learn by doing.

Quote:
Every good software on the market at some point in the beginning has done a basic flow chart in order for the developers to get the big picture as well. Without one then there is no real direction and it just squirts all over the place.
Quote:
Dont you think TCAdmin would get many more sales if people understood the concept rather than it seeming so overwhelming?
Great, then why don't you show us some? TCAdmin 2 is beta software. It would be stupid to spend time telling about every single feature when the software is nowhere near finished. TCAdmin 2 still needs features that were added in version 1.

Quote:
So what your saying is that noone that understands this can take 20 minutes with paint and add a simple flowchart to the docs so that "green" people like myself can understand how the master fits with the datacenter and that fits with the file server and that fits with the server and that fits with the virtual server.
I actually never said that.

No. TCAdmin is the greatest software used by GSP's and communities to run game servers. I don't know the sales numbers from TCAdmin, but they can only sell new licenses if there's a new GSP (or in minor cases, community) that's starting to host games. TCAdmin also have a module for WHMCS, which is by far the most popular billing software. So no, I don't think they would.

When that's said, I have better things to do than start a flame war on the forums.
TCAdmin 2 is beta software. Expect stuff to be added, expect stuff to be removed, expect stuff to break. Expect a wiki that isn't fully complete.
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2016, 09:45 AM
durangod durangod is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

First i thank you for taking the time to explain things, these things should be explained in the beginning such as (compare monitor to for example Apache or other service which runs in the background) That is a simple enough statement and now i understand.

And for the rest of the explanation i sincerely do appreciate it, i really do.

As for the flaming and saying that "now you are" its not your choice sir, as a senior member you have a special obligation to adhere to the rules of the forum and check your attitude at the door. May i remind you of rule 4

Quote:
4. The flaming of another users post is not acceptable. In fairness, all users are allowed to express their opinion or ask questions. We do not believe they should be ridiculed because of it. Please refrain from flaming other users.
It does not say if you are a senior member you have the choice, it does not say that some are exempt, it is also quite "obvious" to use your terms what it means.

I also did not come on here for a war, i came here for information however i wont be made fun of or treated like im stupid when i dont understand things. I hope you can understand that.

My apologies if i may have barked too soon, but look at your comment and the way it sounds from someone who has only been involved with TCAdmin for less than a week, and this is only one of my first few posts. How does that look to someone like me when you say things like that. If that is not what you meant then we can agree just move on, that would be ok by me.

However all of those suggestions you made maybe should have a link of some kind on the order page or main page of the site, that would certainly help the situation.

Thanks again..
dave
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2016, 11:43 AM
DennisMidjord DennisMidjord is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

I was trying to help you, and from the 5 lines in my post in which I tried to answer your question, you somehow figured that I was flaming you.

The "OK Dennis lets remain professional here, i feel like your starting to flame me a bit and i dont appreciate it ok" line just cut it for me. Acting professional is not assuming that other people are hateful towards you, just because you don't like what they write. What I've written has been facts or lines where I've asked you to elaborate.
Pointing to certain rules doesn't help you much - certainly because I wasn't flaming. I was angry, yes, but flaming is another thing. "Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, often involving the use of profanity. It can also be the swapping of insults back and forth or with many groups teaming up on a single victim." - I've done nothing that's close to flaming, but I've expressed my own opinion, and I've expressed it like I felt I needed to. And yes, if you accuse me of being something that I'm not, I tend to get mad - I'm after all offering my help for free.

Quote:
In fairness, all users are allowed to express their opinion or ask questions.
Which I did. My opinion is that a lot of the stuff you mentioned are self-explanatory, which a lot of them are, and you could read info about the rest (such as file server and datacenter, etc).

Quote:
How does that look to someone like me when you say things like that.
Say stuff like what? That I didn't understand what you were trying to say? Literally everything I said in my second post was:
- What?
- Explained this and that
- Told you to research a bit further as anything needed to run TCAdmin is stated on the help pages
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2016, 01:57 PM
durangod durangod is offline
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Default Re: Please add a flowchart to your docs section

Then i misunderstood your intentions and sorry about that... But this is the line that got me kashivelled a bit lol..

Quote:
Well, it doesn't take much research to figure out that the Monitor is a monitor, and that the service manager is... Yeah, it's way to obvious.
It appeared to me you were calling me stupid under your breath in so many word, and if i misunderstood then i apologize sir.

all is well
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